Todorcevic showed that if kappa is singular of cofinality omega and square_kappa holds then there is a linear order of cardinality kappa^+ which is not sigma-scattered while all of its small suborders are sigma-wellordered. I will discuss how to get the same result from some pcf-theoretic principles, which follow both from weaker forms of square and from certain failures of SCH. If time allows I will discuss some related problems.